This week we're thinking about retrofit differently with Dan Hill from Dark Matter Labs (DML). Or rather, we're talking about retrofit's potential to become a movement for social change.

In reality, retrofit is about much more than fabric and economics, it's about people and how they live. With that in mind we should be thinking much more about engagement. This is itself a massive challenge because thinking about people properly, as the users of a building, requires a massive shift in how retrofit practice is organised and enacted.

Dan has 25 years of experience from working in housing and planning in senior roles at housing associations, Newham Council, CICs, and in a bunch of other consultative roles.

We really enjoy talking about these subjects with him because he has gifted us different ways to thinking about the sector, even when we're talking through familiar territory. So, listen up, eh? 


Updated notes from the show

**SOME SELF-PROMOTING CALLS TO ACTION**
We don't actually earn anything from this, and it's quite a lot of work, so we have to promote the day jobs.