This episode is a window into the consumer side of domestic retrofit that’s full of lessons for everyone involved in the retrofit sector. 

We speak with retrofit influencer Judith Leary Joyce about the experience of undergoing a deep retrofit and learning how to communicate about the subject with normal people. She talks us through her journey from building an extension during the pandemic to getting deep into retrofit and eventually becoming an unlikely retrofit influencer.

Whether you work in a domestic, commercial, or industrial setting the nature and needs of normal people will remain the same, so this is an episode full of lessons and insights for anyone  for anyone involved in domestic retrofit about:

- how to speak with normal people
- how to learn how to do better (TLDR: listen to yourself, or get someone to listen to you to check whether you're baffling your customers)

- how to think about their needs and understand their perspectives

- how to inspire them and inform them better prior to a project

She’s also got some fascinating insights about when people are likely to be able or willing to listen to someone talking about building performance and taking on new ideas

**SOME SELF-PROMOTING CALLS TO ACTION**
We don't actually earn anything from this, and it's quite a lot of work, so we have to promote the day jobs.